[Pharmwaste] Testing chemical risk in MN lakes, scientists shrink to the cell level

[Catherine Zimmer]

Hi Jen and all,

Jen, that is fascinating, and yes I like Dalma's quote, too.  This is
contrary to what was taught when I was in immunology years ago-antibodies
and hormones are two totally different proteins with different functions.
An antibody is theoretically very specific to the antigen it locks
onto-making the antibody/antigen complex effective at protecting the body
from disease or other foreign elements.  I'm sure our knowledge has advanced
remarkably since I was an undergrad, to the point where antibody proteins
have been fully decoded, etc.  

 

Another interesting aspect of pharmaceuticals is the doses that are
prescribed are thousands of times higher than necessary.  Think of it, we
take a milligram dose that translates to a microgram, nanogram  or picogram
concentration in the body.  The rest is primarily excreted.  The
drug/receptor interaction is not nearly as exacting as the antigen/antibody
complex.  As Jim Lazorachek, an EPA water scientist said, we are essentially
overdosed every time we take a medication.  I've found for the few
medications I take, a much smaller dose than prescribed is often very
effective.  I try to be conscious of what I am excreting. 

 

Some of the solution to the extraordinary overdosing and excretion is to
combine the drug with an antibody making it specific to a cellular protein.
Of course this is expensive. But it would go a long way in accurate dosing
and minimizing aquatic impacts.  

 

Very truly yours,

 

Catherine Zimmer, MS, BSMT

Zimmer Environmental Improvement, LLC

Reducing and managing healthcare related waste and costs for fifteen years.


St. Paul, MN 

Ph:  651.645.7509

 <mailto:zenllc at usfamily.net> zenllc at usfamily.net

 

From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Volkman,
Jennifer (MPCA)
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 6:19 PM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] Testing chemical risk in MN lakes, scientists
shrink to the cell level

 

My favorite quote from one of Dalma's presentations is "the estrogen
receptor is very promiscuous" 

 

I listened to a presentation from Mark Ferrey last week on the studies he's
done. Very interesting, like how they thought they had a "control lake" that
was nearly inaccessible in the middle of nowhere in far northern MN, but it
had just as many hits for chemicals as lakes in very populated areas with
houses all around them. Another was that contrast dyes commonly showed up,
how many people have to drink those? Airborne deposition vs. sewering is
another interesting concept. I believe he is next going to work on comparing
airborne toxics data with is found in surface water.

 

I'm not a fan of the common analogies used to help people get a picture of
what a ppm or ppt is. I think saying one drop in an Olympic size pool just
tells people it isn't enough to worry about. I've been wondering if a chart
exists that shows the level of drugs in our blood system-what the effective
dose computes to in our blood stream. He had a chart! It is attached and I
think you may find it a more useful way to communicate ppm/b/t. 

 

I think the easiest analogy to understand is that a person taking a
(typical) 20 ug dose of ethinyl estradiol results in it being present at a
level of 250 ppt in a woman's body--and it is enough to keep her from
getting pregnant. It also includes some non-pharmaceuticals. I couldn't find
a source for the table in the PowerPoint I took this from, sorry.

 

Mark also said that Mayo doctors were very interested in his data and he
asked them if they believed these parts per trillion could have much impact
on humans. A doctor told him the difference in the level of estrogen in a
woman's body pre and post menopause is a reduction from 10 ppt to 7 ppt.

 

JV

 

From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Tenace,
Laurie
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 8:12 AM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: [Pharmwaste] Testing chemical risk in MN lakes, scientists shrink
to the cell level

 

Testing chemical risk in MN lakes, scientists shrink to the cell level

 <http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/26/testing-risk-in-minnesota-lakes>
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/26/testing-risk-in-minnesota-lakes

 

 <http://www.mprnews.org/environment> Environment
<http://minnesota.publicradio.org/about/people/mpr_people_display.php?aut_id
=25> Dan Gunderson . Moorhead, Minn. . Oct 26, 2015 

Scientists have found pharmaceuticals and other chemicals in lakes across
Minnesota, including one in Voyageurs National Park in northern Minnesota.
New genetic testing tools are helping researchers determine what risk those
chemicals pose to the environment. Courtesy of Voyageurs National Park file 

Dalma Martinovic uses many tools to analyze the potential effects of
environmental pollutants in Minnesota lakes. But there's none better than
her firefly experiment.

To test for chemicals affecting hormone production, Martinovic uses breast
cancer cells with a firefly gene. When the cells are exposed to certain
chemicals, they glow like a firefly. The more intense the cell reaction to
the chemicals, the brighter the light.

"It's really cool actually," said Martinovic, a researcher at the University
of St. Thomas.

It's more than cool. Researchers for years documented low levels of
chemicals - from antidepressants to insect repellent - in Minnesota lakes,
but they had a hard time answering the question: What's the risk?

Martinovic is working now with the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency and
the federal Environmental Protection Agency on techniques to help find
answers. 

The new tools can assess risk from chemicals found in water at levels as low
as a few parts per trillion. In a swimming pool the size of a football field
- and four stories deep - a single drop of water would be about one part per
trillion.

Digging into the effects of chemicals at the genetic level is a big change
for scientists. In the past, a researcher might expose a fish to chemicals
and observe what happened. In some cases
<http://www.mprnews.org/story/2010/11/01/male-fish-study> male fish took on
female traits after exposure. In other studies
<http://www.mprnews.org/story/2013/02/20/environment/new-study-shows-chemica
ls-can-reduce-fish-survival> fish behavior changed.

Why those things happened wasn't always clear.

Those studies are still used, but now instead of only observing fish
response to chemicals, Martinovic zooms in on individual genes. Are they
turned on or off by chemical exposure? Genes create proteins that in turn
influence what happens to cells and organs in a fish or human body.

The earliest studies of contaminants involved hormones. Scientists observed
reproductive changes in fish exposed to chemicals that interfere with
hormone production.

But that was like seeing a blurry photo. Now, by examining how individual
genes react to chemicals, the picture is slowly coming into focus.

Early genetic work by Martinovic found fish genes that regulate immune
response often changed in response to the chemicals. Genes that regulate
hormones nearly always changed when exposed to low levels of chemicals that
interact or interfere with hormones. 

Because there are many chemicals in water it's also important to understand
the cumulative effect. Sometimes more than one chemical will stimulate the
same gene to produce a protein. In other cases one chemical will turn on a
gene while
<http://www.mprnews.org/story/2011/03/11/wastewater-pharmaceuticals-streams>
another has the opposite effect.

"When we talk about genes we say, 'Oh, genes are so important," she said.
"Well in a sense, protein is the expression of the gene. It tells you if
this gene is turned on it's going to make some protein or it's not going to
make some protein. In a sense proteins are the expression of the state of
your body." 

Another new tool to identify risk is data mining. 

The EPA has created a large database of genetic response to a variety of
chemicals. It brings together research from around the world. 

"We can go to the database and say, I have these four chemicals please list
all of the genes that would be impacted by these chemicals. And then we can
say, 'OK, what do these processes mean?" Martinovic said. "We can actually
then predict what might be happening." 

That's the ideal scenario for risk assessment. The problem is there are
thousands of chemicals that still need to be tested and added to the
database.

Still, genetic risk assessment is helping target research by helping rank
chemicals by the potential effects of genetic change they may cause.

That will allow MPCA to decide which chemicals to test for in the
environment, and avoid expensive tests for chemicals with limited risk
potential, said MPCA scientist Mark Ferrey.

The techniques may provide a better picture the risk to the environment or
human health, said Ferrey, who first reported on the widespread discovery of
chemicals in Minnesota lakes back in 2009 but confessed he's lost sleep over
the question of the risk the chemicals posed.

"Some people will say it's terrible and very frightening that we can have
medications in our surface water. And other people will say these chemicals
are at such low concentrations it can't possibly make a difference," Ferrey
said. 

"This is a way to say this is why these things matter to us," he added. "How
can we mitigate exposure in the environment? How can we treat them more
effectively in treatment plants? How can we remove them from the waste
stream?" 

Ferrey and Martinovic are using these techniques to prioritize the risk for
contaminants in water collected at 10 sites around Minnesota. The findings
will be published early next year.

Martinovic is optimistic that within 15 years chemical risk assessment will
be much quicker and more detailed.

"It's complex. It's not simple," she said. "But all of this holds great
promise."

 

 

Laurie Tenace

Environmental Specialist

Waste Reduction Section

Florida Department of Environmental Protection

2600 Blair Stone Road, MS 4555

Tallahassee, FL 32399-2400

850.245.8759

Laurie.Tenace at dep.state.fl.us

 

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