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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>John--</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>I agree that we have to make a
concrete recommendation when asked; however </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>IMHO,
there are problems with both the federal guidelines AND your
recommendations. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>First, with the Federal guidelines,
not everyone has a cat or drinks coffee [I don't]. There is really no
destruction of the pills, so they are still readily identified. There's a
risk of inadvertent depositing the grounds/pills mix in the backyard
compost. And I'm not sure that coffee grounds are a sufficient deterrent
to a prescription drug addict; it would have to be WAY MORE disgusting [cat
litter MAY be, if its USED, but the Federal Guidelines do not
specify].</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>With your FL guidelines,
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>I also have concerns about patient confidentiality if the
information is just crossed out and the label NOT removed. And,
although I'm sure prescription drug abusers know what the pills they are
targeting look like, I'm uncomfortable in having a billboard on the containers
saying "Oxycontin in Here".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>I DO like your idea of dissolving the
pills, but expanded more fully, so that they are TOTALLY dissolved into
newspaper, paper towel, shredded paper, old rags, etc.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2>I don't like the packaging from either
the Federal or FL guidelines. The problem with the FL recommendation
is that the vial is not water tight, and the duct or packaging tape will not
make it so. The amber PP vials are also brittle, cracking easily under
pressure when the coffee can gets crushed around it, or the snap-on
flimsy lid pops off and it falls out [I DO like detergent bottle,
but with more prep; see below]. This means it can LEAK into the rest of the
trash, and thus become part of the ooze coming out of the garbage truck onto
streets and into rivers, or become leachate in a landfill [obviously not an
issue if your community uses an incinerator, but most of US trash is still
landfilled]. Leachate is treated at POTWs, and we know they are
largely ineffective in treating drugs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>The problem with Fed guidelines is similar...the plastic bags break
easily under pressure of a compacting trash truck or the compaction equipment at
landfills, resulting in the same problems listed above. And if the
bag [or vial] should survive the compaction upon deposit, they can still degrade
and break over time under increasing pressure of trash piled on
top...</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff size=2>the dirty little secret of "dry tomb landfills"...EPA says
they will all leak in time...maybe 30 - 60 years, after the financial
responsibility of the owner has ended, and long after most remember that the
land WAS and landfill. This means a encapsulate drug which has not
leached upon deposit becomes a "timed-release" drug dose to
groundwater.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>So, you're probably wondering what I suggest....here goes [while holding
my nose]:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>1] Crush and mix all pills/liquids together onto absorbent such as
napkins, kleenex, papertowels, newspaper, shredded paper, cat litter, rags,
etc... with just enough water to dissolve them into paste. 2]Place
absorbent/paste mix into a locking plastic bag, squeeze out excess air, and
seal. 3]Place bag into second plastic locking bag , squeeze excess
air, seal 4]Place into old detergent bottle, squeeze excess
air, and replace cap 5]Discard inconspicuously in trash DO NOT
FLUSH OR POUR DOWN DRAIN</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Yes, this is also subject to breaking under pressure, but it's less
likely because of the toughness of the detergent bottle, the double bagging and
removing the "popping balloon" effect by squeezing out the excess
air. It also addresses the issue of palatability of the drugs by
addicts or by children. It still CAN leak, but this reduces the
risk/buys more time...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>I'm not sure this passes the "Convenience Test" that Rachel has
raised so that people would be deterred enough just to flush...but I see it as
an interim recommendation while we work toward Producer Responsibility/changes
in Drug Law to allow for better return and recycling
solutions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Pete Pasterz</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Cabarrus County HHW</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=273194620-23022007><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>Concord, NC</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Price,
John L.<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 23, 2007 2:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B> rachel
golden<BR><B>Cc:</B> pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[text][html][heur] RE: [Pharmwaste] Federal Government issues drug disposal
guidance -if not that, then what?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Rachel: I appreciate
your critique and thoughts about this. Not sure I’m with you on the “First
of all” but I would concur with you on the “Second.” And I agree that this
guidance does not completely acknowledge or address this “enormous issue.” I do
find it to be a step in the right direction, though.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">May I ask, however,
what DO you recommend as practical guidance to the general public’s inquiries if
not this? From where I sit, we cannot answer inquiries about “What should
I do with my unwanted pharmaceuticals” with “Well, we aren’t sure what you
should do, but don’t do this.” That’s an incomplete answer. People who
want to do the right thing, and ask us what that is, need to be given our best
guidance based on what we know that, while not perfect, easy, etc., allows them
to do SOMETHING positive or at least SOMETHING less negative. In my
opinion, that’s what fostering public buy-in to environmental protection is all
about – empowering people to help in some small or big way.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have attached our
agency’s answer to inquiries about “What should I do with my unwanted
pharmaceuticals?” Also, find at <A
href="http://www.dep.state.fl.us/waste/quick_topics/publications/shw/meds/DEPMedicationDisposalFlyer111706Final.pdf">http://www.dep.state.fl.us/waste/quick_topics/publications/shw/meds/DEPMedicationDisposalFlyer111706Final.pdf</A>.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for the post and
for any feedback to mine.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jack.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">John L. (Jack) Price</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Environmental Manager</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Hazardous Waste Management MS
4555</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Florida Department of Environmental
Protection</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">2600 Blair Stone Road</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Tallahassee</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=blue><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">, FL 32399-2400</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Phone:850.245.8751</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Fax: 850.245.8811</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">john.l.price@dep.state.fl.us</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">www.dep.state.fl.us/waste</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please Note: Florida has a
very broad public records law. Most written communications to or from
state officials regarding state business are public records available to the
public and media upon request. Your e-mail is communications and may
therefore be subject to public disclosure.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: windowtext">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>rachel golden<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, February 23, 2007 12:06
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Pharmwaste] Federal
Government issues drug disposal guidance</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Concerning the Federal Government Drug Disposal
Guidance...<BR><BR>I'm not quite sure where to begin...<BR><BR>First of all, the
fact of the matter is that people just won't do this. The folks who are
calling our organizations and asking about how they can safely dispose of their
drugs are not representative of the overall population, and I don't even think
all of them would go through the trouble of mixing their drugs in coffee grounds
or cat litter. This is not a realistic solution, or even a realistic
temporary solution. It might be a way to remove any responsibility from
themselves, but it in no way gets us closer to a solution.<BR><BR>Second, is
this the actual guidance document that the public is supposed to get their
information from? Please tell me it's not, and that the writers of this
guidance document are currently working with educators to craft the actual
public document. The reading level is not appropriate for the general
public. Most material for the public is written at a 6th to 8th grade
reading level. The bulleted points in the drug disposal guidance document
are at a 12th grade reading level. I also would not recommend one of the
bullet points reading, "Flush prescription drugs down the toilet only
if..." This guidance document is needed specifically to let people know
NOT to flush their drugs, an action that was once recommended, so giving
guidance that phrases flushing in positive terminology will only confuse
people.<BR><BR>This is an enormous issue that I think will require law changes
as well as the public being educated to think about waste and disposal in an
entirely new framework. I don't think the guidance document even begins to
acknowledge this.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR>Rachel Golden</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-- <BR>Rachel Golden<BR>Adult Environmental Education
Program Manager<BR>Office of Environmental Education<BR>NC Department of
Environment and Natural Resources<BR>1609 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC
27699-1609<BR>919-733-0711 (phone) 919-733-1616 (fax)<BR><A
href="mailto:rachel.golden@ncmail.net">rachel.golden@ncmail.net</A><BR><A
href="http://www.eenorthcarolina.org">www.eenorthcarolina.org</A><BR><BR>Check
out the EcoSmart Consumer <A
href="http://www.myspace.com/ecosmartconsumer">MySpace page</A> and <A
href="http://ecosmartconsumer.blogspot.com/">blog</A>!</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
DISCLAIMER:<br>
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.<br>
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