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Nice model Fred! I believe our contractor recycles the mercury, powder, glass and end caps, so I'd need to add in the energy and other benefits of not having to mine metals/minerals or melt sand. The glass has been landfilled at times, but mostly recycled.
I think we need to do a lot more of these footprint analyses. I really wish I had time to invest in more modeling like this. I think that for many items it points to retail collection and reverse distribution back to the manufacturer, with them using components
as feedstock for new products. If we can receive intact lamps from China, we should be able to ship them back...I'll just add this to my long list of reasons never to buy fluorescents.
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<div>For pharms, transporting to a landfill is not much different or is the same as transporting to a WTE facility in MN. The locals have figured out efficient ways to consolidate pharms from different programs (they interact frequently from county to county)
to make less frequent runs to an incinerator. There was one sheriff who combined the drop off at the WTE with his bear hunting trip. I think it is rare that individuals make a dedicated run to a pharm collection site without either needing something at the
pharmacy or going to the library or picking up groceries, etc. I know I don't have time for dedicated trips, it would be just one in a series of stops. I think that, like with most studies, there are variables that tip the scale one way or the other. If you
shop around you'll always find a study that supports any theory you come up with.<br>
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<div id="divRpF619207" style="direction: ltr; "><font face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us [pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] on behalf of Fredrick L. Miller [millerfl@tricity.wsu.edu]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 10, 2012 1:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] RE: pharmaceutical incineration<br>
</font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I concur with Ross on this.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Allen,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I got mad enough at the “do something, anything, green and do it now” dunderheads a few years back when the panderers in Olympia declared all fluorescent lighting, regardless of type, from state owned and leased
buildings in Washington would be “recycled” that I calculated both GHG and mercury emissions from said activity and contrasted them with landfill disposal.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I accounted for</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Transportation, including roadway maintenance, fuel refining, distribution and consumption, vehicle construction and maintenance</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Emissions from coal fired electrical generation in the manufacturing process of materials required for the above</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Fate of residuals</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Landfill standards (local disposal at modern Subtitle D v. Subtitle C where Hg recycler disposes), along with transport of residual from Hg recycler to Subtitle C landfill (Wisconsin to Alabama) and sham “recycling”
of glass components which end up as MSW.</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span style="color:#1F497D">MSW contribution from CFL (over 90% of mass)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">It turns out we emit over three times as much mercury to the atmosphere if we recycle out here in the west, Racine Wisconsin being the closest retort, as we would if we just threw the darned things down in the
parking lot and broke them. Then, nearly as much mercury ends up in the retort residuals in a landfill in Alabama which isn’t as secure as our local MSW landfill only 250 miles away from the most distant transfer station in the state. Our GHG emissions from
recycling exceed what they would be from MSW disposal by two orders of magnitude. And we don’t save one blessed cubic meter of landfill space!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Oh, then there’s the little fact that those lamps cost us on the order of $30/kg (converted from average weight per linear ft. at state contract price) instead of $90/ton.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Gosh, I love it when activist amateurs save the planet. I can’t imagine what useful things we could have done with that money instead of enriching a “recycling” industry that’s simply warehousing an unwanted
commodity.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Fred</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us [mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bunnell, Ross<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 10, 2012 11:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] FW: pharmaceutical incineration</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366">All humor aside, I think we need to keep in mind that there is more to consider here than air emissions and the effect that a small unit like this would have on the environment at large.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366">More specifically, with a unit like this, which has a stack at or close to human nose level, this is also a worker exposure issue. While a unit like this one could probably (I say probably) destroy most pharmaceuticals
to a high degree of efficiency (if operated correctly), there are other pharmaceuticals that might be resistant to thermal destruction, that might form toxic combustions products (dioxins, furans, PAHs, etc.), or that might create inorganic emissions (e.g.
arsenic fume from burning arsenic trioxide). In my opinion this is actually the more relevant and germane issue. I’m not sure I’d like to be the junior police officer that is tasked with the job of running this thing, even if I was standing upwind.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366">Shipping the stuff to a trash-to-energy plant makes a lot more sense to me (no worker exposure, the combustion unit has sophisticated air pollution control equipment run by knowledgeable staff and has a tall
stack, etc.).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366">--Ross Bunnell, CT DEEP</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#993366"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a>
<a href="mailto:[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]" target="_blank">
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Gilliam, Allen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 10, 2012 1:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Volkman, Jennifer (MPCA); <a href="mailto:Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">
Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] RE: pharmaceutical incineration</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">As a preeminent scientist with EPA in Las Vegas has stated (something to the affect), “We’re probably doing more harm to the environment via all the combustion
engine emissions being discharged from individual household vehicles to the big diesel trucks’ emissions hauling the collections to a distant regulated haz waste incinerator”. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Has anyone put a pencil to that comparison to the relatively small emissions from the “terminator”?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Just another fed reg where you cannot mention common sense in the same breath without creating an oxymoron, seems to me, painted road-kill raccoons et. al.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Allen g</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a>
<a href="mailto:[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]" target="_blank">
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Volkman, Jennifer (MPCA)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 10, 2012 12:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] RE: pharmaceutical incineration</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">In MN, they'd have to be fully permitted according to the applicable AQ standards, SW or HW, I'm not sure of the specifics. Either way, the permitting requirements make it not feasible. Enforcement
would shut them down. We're fortunate to have 10 WTE's available, including a medical waste incinerator and a few that are coal/RDF plants and half of them are approved to accept household generated pharm waste. All of them could be permitted to accept it
if they choose. I should check what the longest travel distance would be, probably 2.5 hours one way. Some county law enforcement entities consolidate waste between them so that they each only have to make a trip every few years.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a> [pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] on behalf of Fredrick L. Miller [millerfl@tricity.wsu.edu]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 10, 2012 10:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] RE: pharmaceutical incineration</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Not in Washington. I doubt they’d ever be able to meet pollution control and permit requirements here. They certainly would never pass muster with our actively interested and VERY vocal citizens.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">>From a regulatory standpoint, how do they fit in non-attainment areas? What’s the mechanism for working with various airshed PCAs? They’re combusting MSW, at best, and depending upon the source of the materials
combusted, perhaps RCRA waste. How are those hurdles overcome and the RCRA aspect controlled for? I’m very curious as I’ve had people in states outside Washington propose similar operations and I’ve always advised against it on regulatory (pain) grounds.
If you’ve found a wrinkle in the CAA that allows for reasonable size burners that can meet all those regulatory challenges I’d be most grateful to see what you’ve got.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Fred</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:black">
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a>
<a href="mailto:[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]" target="_blank">
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Hoffman, Deb<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 10, 2012 5:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">Pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:midwestpsc@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">midwestpsc@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] pharmaceutical incineration</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Greetings,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Here in Ohio, we’re discussing the usage of the portable incinerators, from an air pollution standpoint. I’ve been working with a colleague in the Ohio EPA Division of Air Pollution Control. I’d like to know
if anyone is aware of any recent research on the effectiveness of portable incinerators, or if they are being used in other states. And if you would like to share incineration options in your state, I would be interested in hearing them.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thank you,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Deb</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Deb Hoffman</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Environmental Specialist</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Division of Materials and Waste Management</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Ohio EPA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">614.728.5353</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
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