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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Quite a bit has been mentioned about profits and revenues, as if that were the measuring stick by which responsibility should be assigned. To the best of my
knowledge, pharmaceutical companies do not prescribe their drugs nor create the conditions by which pharmaceuticals become waste. Demand for these medications creates competition and profits become R&D funding for the next treatment or cure. The high cost
can be, in part, attributed to sometimes onerous regulatory hurdles required to bring solutions to market. If a private company and its shareholders are willing to risk investigating a drug that might take more than a decade to reach the consumer, I say they’ve
earned whatever obscene ROI the free market is willing to pay them. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On the issue of electronics, paint, batteries, tires and other take-back programs mentioned, most of these end of life products still have value. To that end,
there is a profit to be made on the back end from which program costs can be offset. Often a recycled component can be reused. Not so with pharmaceuticals. But more to the point, just because these programs are imposed in other industries/products, doesn’t
make it right. I do understand the mission of encouraging manufacturers to recycle raw materials as a good thing for both the environment and natural resources. I get it. But when a waste is a waste, there is no product stewardship… you’re just looking for
someone else to carry the economic burden of disposal. Nothing is gained in the way of resource conservation or waste diversion. But I think Fred’s point was lost among all the rhetoric and injured egos. Alameda County is but a single municipality. Imagine
if all of the 3009 counties, 64 parishes, 16 boroughs and 41 independent municipalities in the US decided to adopt similar measures. The cost of prescription drugs, insurance and healthcare would skyrocket unnecessarily. As Fred correctly stated, there are
already mechanisms in place to deal with household generated waste and who pays for it.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The taxpayers of Alameda County now have to shoulder the cost of costly litigation which will overshadow, by orders of magnitude, the cost of a few pounds of
waste medicine. No winners there. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Barry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Joel Kreisberg [mailto:drkreisberg@teleosis.org]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fred Miller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Pharmwaste] Pharma industry complaint against Alameda County<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I have to agree with Heidi. I'm not sure what is informing your "definitive" tone. Indeed currently the "company" called consumers are paying for this service. So they are invested at this point. While
the are many more stakeholders in healthcare then in electronics and paint, and indeed no one prescribes paint or cell phones, the stakeholder making the largest profit here is the manufacturer. As well, pharm sales continue to rise about 6% a year, in part
because of the for profit system. In a closed system such as Kaiser, the corporation is actively working on reducing waste in terms of prescribing patterns and adherence patterns. In the free market system, the incentive to consume and dispose begins with
the publicly traded pharmaceutical manufacturer (look at those numbers Fred). Sure the profits move down the line, but again, the biggest profit is up front and the smallest is sales at retail. Yep, creating incentives for improving compliance and reducing
overprescribing is necessary, perhaps these would be better invested in a for profit system if the biggest money makers had a cradle-to-cradle design system. This ordinance is an attempt to create that structure.
<br>
<br>
Its actually easier then you and manufacturers are making it out to be. That's why when I check with three economists I get three different answers, so your point isn't clear. And your point about human nature--thank you for your sharing--It's helps us all
in understanding what we are up against in our collective attempt to create an equitable system of ecological health.
<br>
<br>
I think Heidi's point was that to date, most on this list serve were in support of cradle-to-cradle solutions to ecological issues. Product stewardship is the current best practice, not the only solution. At least for me, I'm glad you are reminding me of
the hubris of human nature that is never far off. <br>
<br>
We'll keep working on it. <br>
<br>
Joel<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Fred Miller <<a href="mailto:millerfl@tricity.wsu.edu" target="_blank">millerfl@tricity.wsu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jennifer,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">In my second paragraph I was speaking not to product stewardship but rather law, politics, and human nature.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">You provided “Companies faced with managing their own waste invest in ways to reduce it” and I couldn’t agree more. Where we differ is what constitutes
a “company” in this problem. I see the pool of prescribing professionals, dispensing outlets, and consumers as the “company” and fates of their wastes to be something THEY must invest in before anything else matters. Where’s their incentive to do better
if they’re not paying for waste management in a tangible way? Hidden costs rarely influence behavior of such a “company” because it soon gets shuffled into the background as an unavoidable cost of doing business. When it’s turned into a cost center they
must deal with, management (consumers, physicians, pharmacists) suddenly start paying attention because it’s something they can control directly. Don’t take my word for it. Ask any economist.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">As I said, mileage may vary.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
Servus</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Volkman, Jennifer (MPCA) [mailto:<a href="mailto:jennifer.volkman@state.mn.us" target="_blank">jennifer.volkman@state.mn.us</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Heidi; Fred Miller; <a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">
pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Pharmwaste] Pharma industry complaint against Alameda County<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think Fred's first paragraph is interesting and I'm curious to see how this plays out.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don't have the energy to point out everything wrong with the second paragraph, but if you have no understanding of the concept of product stewardship, then the argument is lost
anyway. Alameda was brave to stand up to big PhRMA. They did something that many other states and local units of government have been trying to do for several years. There is national legislation that I've heard is not likely to go anywhere, but it is there
because people are tired of industry dumping on government and the taxpayers. We all know everybody pays for this, there is no away, be it through taxes or user fees. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Please consider the real benefits of a great product stewardship program, programs that are in place in other nations: the cradle to cradle system between manufacturers, retail
and customer is maintained with no government "out". Companies faced with managing their own waste invest in ways to reduce it, to make products and components that are less toxic and which can be better recycled; they learn what doesn't work (over-prescription
or wasting of certain less tolerable drugs), in this case, they develop better ways to deliver drugs/target a problem; they develop transport efficiencies. Those interested in less government should be interested in helping companies get their resources back
to the point of manufacture for reuse. I've been in solid waste for 25+ years and government can no longer manage the waste burden. Private industry needs to step up and apply their fabulous brains and resources to this problem. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nice way to step up PhRMA. They will spend more on this lawsuit than they would have spent on giving the program a try.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a> [<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a>] on behalf of Heidi
[<a href="mailto:Heidi@calpsc.org" target="_blank">Heidi@calpsc.org</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 10, 2012 6:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fred Miller; <a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">
pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Pharmwaste] Pharma industry complaint against Alameda County</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Fred – wow. Calling Supervisor Miley and the county supervisors pandering politicians is completely irresponsible and unprofessional. I’m sorry this
type of post is allowed on this listserv.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
Heidi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a> [<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fred Miller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 10, 2012 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Pharmwaste] Pharma industry complaint against Alameda County</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">After reading the filing I believe the plaintiffs will prevail on constitutional grounds. Some of their other claims are suspect but the challenge is
based upon constitutional law where they stand on fairly firm and clear ground. To go back up the channel beyond the party who imports into a jurisdiction is clearly a violation of the ICC, and even that step is very likely to be slapped down. They can’t
even give manufacturers/distributor the option of not doing business in the jurisdiction without violation of the ICC. Political subdivisions may tax activities which occur within their jurisdiction but they can’t reach beyond those geographical bounds.
To implement such a program would require federal action to keep from running afoul of the ICC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">I believe these programs should be a function of government. That allows a tax to be imposed upon retail sales within each jurisdiction which is clearly
allowed. As this ordinance stands, Alameda County is trying to grab a free ride off the rest of the nation. Their pandering politicians lack the courage to tell people we all bear responsibility for what we consume.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Fred</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a> [<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Cassel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] Pharma industry complaint against Alameda County</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks to one of our members for the attached 11-page complaint filed in federal court by PhRMA, GPhA, and BIO against Alameda County's Safe Drug Disposal Ordinance. The lawsuit provides
a concise summary of the law. It is also a broad rebuttal against the concept of producer responsibility, arguing that drug-take back programs should be a government function.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">____________________________</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
<b>Scott Cassel</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Chief<b>
</b>Executive Officer/Founder<br>
<i>Product Stewardship Institute, Inc.</i><br>
29 Stanhope Street<br>
Boston, MA 02116<br>
<a href="tel:617-236-4822" target="_blank">617-236-4822</a> (ph)<br>
<a href="tel:617-236-4766" target="_blank">617-236-4766</a> (fax) <br>
</span><a href="mailto:scott@productstewardship.us" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">scott@productstewardship.us</span></a><br>
<a href="http://www.productstewardship.us/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.productstewardship.us</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif"">Dr. Joel Kreisberg, DC, MA, CCH<br>
<a href="http://drkreisberg.com" target="_blank">drkreisberg.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.teleosis.org" target="_blank">teleosis.org</a><br>
<a href="http://foundation.metaintegral.org/centers/integral-health-medicine-center" target="_blank">foundation.metaintegral.org/centers/integral-health-medicine-center</a><br>
<a href="mailto:drkreisberg@teleosis.org" target="_blank">drkreisberg@teleosis.org</a><br>
<a href="tel:510-558-7285%20Ext%20102" target="_blank">510-558-7285 Ext 102</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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