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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">Hi Larry,<br>
<br>
You protest listserv discussion of the DEA rule stating that, "<font color="#222222" face="arial,sans-serif"><font color="blue"><span style="background-color:#EEEEEE;">there are other safer alternatives that collect and dispose or more products than anything
you have done so far. </span></font></font><font color="#222222" face="arial,sans-serif"><font color="blue"><span style="background-color:#EEEEEE;"><font color="#222222" face="arial,sans-serif"><font color="blue"><span style="background-color:#EEEEEE;">Everyone
seems to want to create something new when there are products and programs that work more effectively.</span></font></font>"</span></font></font> I presume you are referring to your disposal product.<br>
<br>
The DEA rule leaves us in an awkward position. They mandate an non-recoverable standard, mentioning that incineration and chemical digestion meet the standard and flushing and trash disposal do not. They go on to say they will not evaluate other technologies
(or is it products?).<br>
<br>
Though reading research papers may have convinced me that activated carbon, used in the proper ratio and given enough time, will meet the DEA standard, most folks will only have a companies assurance that their product does.<br>
<br>
Looking at the FillAbox website, I didn't see a specific claim that it meets the DEA standard. Did I overlook it? If so, do you think FillAbox would consider offering a guarantee? Perhaps a promise to pay all legal fees and fines should the government take
action, on the basis of improper disposal of pharmaceuticals, against any home or corporate consumer using your product? A guarantee might help close sales with potential customers.
<br>
<br>
I (somewhat cynically) venture to say that even without any consideration of your products performance, a guarantee is probably a low risk action. The DEA has already told us they won't be checking. What other agency will? The longstanding lack of government
resources for environmental protection/enforcement makes a challenge unlikely, in my opinion.
<br>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"><font><span style="font-size:" lang="en-US">
<div>Ed Gottlieb<br>
Chair, Coalition for Safe Medication Disposal<br>
</div>
<div>Industrial Pretreatment Coordinator</div>
<div>Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Facility<br>
525 3<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><sup>rd</sup></font> Street</div>
<div>Ithaca, NY 14850</div>
<div>(607) 273-8381</div>
<div>fax: (607) 273-8433</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"><font><span style="font-size:" lang="en-US">
<div>Ed Gottlieb<br>
Chair, Coalition for Safe Medication Disposal<br>
</div>
<div>Industrial Pretreatment Coordinator</div>
<div>Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Facility<br>
525 3<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><sup>rd</sup></font> Street</div>
<div>Ithaca, NY 14850</div>
<div>(607) 273-8381</div>
<div>fax: (607) 273-8433</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF657702"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us [pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] on behalf of Lawernce Kenemore Jr. [ldkjr100@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2015 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] Re: Pharmwaste Digest, Vol 121, Issue 8<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
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<div style="max-width:590px"><img alt="New Box Logo 5-1_edited-1.jpg" src="cid:1dfc47db50ff9e0e73f7893690ef823b" style="max-width:100%; width:132.4px" width="132"></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><b style="background-color:rgb(238,238,238)"><font color="#38761d">FillAboxrecycling.com</font></b></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><b>Larry Kenemore Jr.</b></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><b>Inventor/Consultant to</b></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><b>Board of Directors</b></div>
<div style="max-width:590px">10092 Bianchi Way #207</div>
<div style="max-width:590px">Cupertino CA. 95014</div>
<div style="max-width:590px">(855) 873-4965</div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><font color="#274e13">A Woman Owned/</font></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><font color="#274e13">Minority Owned Business</font></div>
<div style="max-width:590px">D&B #079463523</div>
<div style="max-width:590px">NAICS #562920</div>
<div style="max-width:590px">CAGE #079463523/7AKL</div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><span style="background-color:rgb(238,238,238)"><font color="#0000ff">Larrykenemorejr@fillaboxrecycling.com</font></span></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><span style="background-color:rgb(238,238,238)"><font color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><span style="background-color:rgb(238,238,238)"><font color="#0000ff">Ed and others;</font></span></div>
<div style="max-width:590px"><span style="background-color:rgb(238,238,238)"><font color="#0000ff">Interesting reading, however it seems that you all have missed the point (or the boat) so to speak. Why create a complete new system as the DEA has when there
are other safer alternatives that collect and dispose or more products than anything you have done so far. Everyone seems to want to create something new when there are products and programs that work more effectively.</font></span></div>
<img src="https://app.mixmax.com/api/track/v2/tNDhA4OAbkUXJTGPb/ISbvNmLslWYtdGQwATMyp2akxmI/gIzVnLsZmLlRXY0NnLwVGZuMHdzlGbAVGdzF2dtJXYoBnI/gIzVnLsZmLlRXY0NnLwVGZuMHdzlGbAVGdzF2dtJXYoBnI" alt="" style="border:0; width:0px; height:0px" height="0" width="0">
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:00 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-request@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-request@lists.dep.state.fl.us</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
Send Pharmwaste mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.<wbr>us</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://lists.dep.state.fl.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharmwaste" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://lists.dep.state.fl.us/<wbr>cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/<wbr>pharmwaste</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-request@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">
pharmwaste-request@lists.dep.<wbr>state.fl.us</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-owner@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-owner@lists.dep.<wbr>state.fl.us</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Pharmwaste digest..."<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. RE: any good data on diversion? (Ed Gottlieb)<br>
2. Re: RE: any good data on diversion?<br>
(Yellow Jug Old Drugs Account Support)<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Ed Gottlieb <EGottlieb@cityofithaca.org><br>
To: "Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" <Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov>, "pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" <pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us><br>
Cc: <br>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 15:44:57 +0000<br>
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: any good data on diversion?<br>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; color:#000000; font-size:10pt">Debbie,<br>
<br>
Illegal diversion will always be an issue, at pharmacies, police stations, and in homes.<br>
<br>
For awhile, I collected news reports about such occurrences. These stories are powerful reminders of the temptation of easy money and the desperation of addicts.
<br>
<br>
They are also anecdotal accounts. However many of them are collected, I suspect they will be of limited use in determining what percent of controlled substances received in take back programs are illegally diverted. I'd be surprised if there is any real data
on this. The DEA probably has data on diversion from pharmacies stock of controlled substances.
<br>
<br>
I'd suggest that pharmacies who have concerns should to be reminded that the detailed procedures for take back were written by the DEA, an agency that is completely committed to the prevention of illegal diversion. They need to understand and follow the DEA
procedures.<br>
<div><br>
What are the specific concerns that you are hearing? If it is robbery, a double locked take back box has more security than their stock of controlled substances, which are more concentrated and easier to access. If the concern is an employee stealing from
the un-inventoried contents in a return box, DEA procedure is that no single employee have both keys to access collected medications. The odds of collusion to commit a felony between two employees is small.<br>
<br>
I'm interested to see what others have to say on this.<br>
<br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"><font><span lang="en-US">
<div>Ed Gottlieb<br>
Chair, Coalition for Safe Medication Disposal<br>
</div>
<div>Industrial Pretreatment Coordinator</div>
<div>Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Facility<br>
525 3<font style="font-size:14px" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><sup>rd</sup></font> Street</div>
<div>Ithaca, NY 14850</div>
<div><a href="tel:%28607%29%20273-8381" value="+16072738381" target="_blank">(607) 273-8381</a></div>
<div>fax: <a href="tel:%28607%29%20273-8433" value="+16072738433" target="_blank">
(607) 273-8433</a></div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:#000000; font-size:16px">
<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font style="font-size:13px" color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.<wbr>state.fl.us</a> [<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.<wbr>state.fl.us</a>] on behalf
of <a href="mailto:Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" target="_blank">Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov</a> [<a href="mailto:Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" target="_blank">Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2015 9:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.<wbr>us</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pharmwaste] any good data on diversion?<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good morning,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">One of the biggest arguments I’ve heard against participating in the collection of unwanted pharms at pharmacies is the possibility of diversion. It seems like a valid argument, so I’d like to see if there is any anecdotal evidence to
that effect. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve contacted Iowa to find out what they have experienced since they’ve had the TakeAway program in place for a number of years. They still do not collect controlled substances, so I understand any diversion (or lack thereof) they experience
could be attributed to that.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’d like to hear from other states, especially ones that are collecting at pharmacies, to see if there is any data on diversion.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Debbie</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img src="cid:f7351ddace4bd47bf49d30c1d0082915" alt="http://epaintra.epa.ohio.gov/portals/11/Documents/Templates/standard_logo_color_email.gif" height="93" width="150"><b><span style="font-size:6.0pt; font-family:"Constantia","serif"; color:#948a54"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:6.0pt; font-family:"Constantia","serif"; color:#948a54"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif"; color:#215868">Deborah Hauser</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif"; color:#215868">Environmental Specialist</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif"; color:#215868">Division of Materials and Waste Management</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif"; color:#215868"><a href="tel:614.728.5353" value="+16147285353" target="_blank">614.728.5353</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Yellow Jug Old Drugs Account Support <info@greatlakescleanwater.org><br>
To: Ed Gottlieb <EGottlieb@cityofithaca.org><br>
Cc: "Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" <deborah.hauser@epa.ohio.gov>, "pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" <pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us><br>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 11:49:05 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [Pharmwaste] RE: any good data on diversion?<br>
To all,<br>
<br>
While diversion may be an issue cited by some pharmacies as a reason not to participate in an Rx-Waste Collection program its likely more misinformation about the DEA regs in place to limit diversion and specific methods of collection that further reduce the
potential for diversion.<br>
<br>
The DEA regs for the collection of controlled substances do minimize the potential for diversion. Primarily the regs. require customers place Rx-waste in lockable container and not pass to a pharmacy employee. The two pharmacy staff signature requirement also
limits diversion potential.<br>
<br>
The regulation that speaks to Rx-Waste not being handled by pharmacy staff should be clearly indicated on the collection container in addition to other pertinent info.<br>
<br>
<br>
The Yellow Jug Old Drugs Program utilizes a system of gel in the collection containers that render the medications irretrievable according to DEA standards. This very much minimizes the potential for diversion<br>
<br>
We believe that the biggest barrier to pharmacies is the potential cost for a pharmacy to participate in an Rx-Waste Collection Program. Great Lake Clean Water/US Clean Water is committed to keeping costs low to encourage more pharmacies to participate resulting
in more communities keeping their<br>
water clean and their communities safe through proper collection and disposal of Rx-Waste.<br>
Chris Angel, President<br>
<a href="http://www.GreatLakesCleanWater.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.GreatLakesCleanWater.org</a> <a href="http://www.USCleanWater.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.USCleanWater.org</a><br>
<br>
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------<br>
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: any good data on diversion?<br>
From: "Ed Gottlieb" <<a href="mailto:EGottlieb@cityofithaca.org" target="_blank">EGottlieb@cityofithaca.org</a>><br>
Date: Tue, November 10, 2015 10:44 am<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" target="_blank">Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov</a>" <<a href="mailto:Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" target="_blank">Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov</a>><br>
"<a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.<wbr>fl.us</a>" <<a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.<wbr>fl.us</a>><br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br>
<br>
> Debbie,<br>
><br>
> Illegal diversion will always be an issue, at pharmacies, police stations, and in homes.<br>
><br>
> For awhile, I collected news reports about such occurrences. These stories are powerful reminders of the temptation of easy money and the desperation of addicts.<br>
><br>
> They are also anecdotal accounts. However many of them are collected, I suspect they will be of limited use in determining what percent of controlled substances received in take back programs are illegally diverted. I'd be surprised if there is any real
data on this. The DEA probably has data<br>
on diversion from pharmacies stock of controlled substances.><br>
> I'd suggest that pharmacies who have concerns should to be reminded that the detailed procedures for take back were written by the DEA, an agency that is completely committed to the prevention of illegal diversion. They need to understand and follow the
DEA procedures.<br>
><br>
> What are the specific concerns that you are hearing? If it is robbery, a double locked take back box has more security than their stock of controlled substances, which are more concentrated and easier to access. If the concern is an employee stealing from
the un-inventoried contents in a return<br>
box, DEA procedure is that no single employee have both keys to access collected medications. The odds of collusion to commit a felony between two employees is small.><br>
> I'm interested to see what others have to say on this.<br>
><br>
> Ed Gottlieb<br>
> Chair, Coalition for Safe Medication Disposal<br>
> Industrial Pretreatment Coordinator<br>
> Ithaca Area Wastewater Treatment Facility<br>
> 525 3rd Street<br>
> Ithaca, NY 14850<br>
> <a href="tel:%28607%29%20273-8381" value="+16072738381" target="_blank">(607) 273-8381</a><br>
> fax: <a href="tel:%28607%29%20273-8433" value="+16072738433" target="_blank">(607) 273-8433</a><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>__<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">
pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.<wbr>state.fl.us</a> [<a href="mailto:pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste-bounces@lists.dep.<wbr>state.fl.us</a>] on behalf of
<a href="mailto:Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" target="_blank">Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov</a> [<a href="mailto:Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov" target="_blank">Deborah.Hauser@epa.ohio.gov</a>]<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 9:39 AM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.<wbr>us</a><br>
> Subject: [Pharmwaste] any good data on diversion?<br>
><br>
> Good morning,<br>
><br>
> One of the biggest arguments I’ve heard against participating in the collection of unwanted pharms at pharmacies is the possibility of diversion. It seems like a valid argument, so I’d like to see if there is any anecdotal evidence to that effect.<br>
><br>
> I’ve contacted Iowa to find out what they have experienced since they’ve had the TakeAway program in place for a number of years. They still do not collect controlled substances, so I understand any diversion (or lack thereof) they experience could be attributed
to that.<br>
><br>
> I’d like to hear from other states, especially ones that are collecting at pharmacies, to see if there is any data on diversion.<br>
><br>
> Thank you,<br>
> Debbie<br>
><br>
><br>
> [<a href="http://epaintra.epa.ohio.gov/portals/11/Documents/Templates/standard_logo_color_email.gif" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://epaintra.epa.ohio.gov/<wbr>portals/11/Documents/<wbr>Templates/standard_logo_color_<wbr>email.gif</a>]<br>
><br>
> Deborah Hauser<br>
> Environmental Specialist<br>
> Division of Materials and Waste Management<br>
> <a href="tel:614.728.5353" value="+16147285353" target="_blank">614.728.5353</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ---<br>
> Note: As a courtesy to other listserv subscribers, please post messages to the listserv in plain text format to avoid the garbling of messages received by digest recipients.<br>
> ---<br>
> TO SUBSCRIBE, go to: <a href="http://lists.dep.state.fl.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharmwaste" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.dep.state.fl.us/<wbr>cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/<wbr>pharmwaste</a><br>
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SEND MAIL to the list server at: <a href="mailto:pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.us" target="_blank">
pharmwaste@lists.dep.state.fl.<wbr>us</a><br>
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