shrug-l: surveying

Bret Whiteley bwhiteley at ecdflorida.com
Mon Jul 23 11:19:07 EDT 2007


SHRUGGERS,

 

Okay so my work this morning fits in nicely with recent discussions.  

 

I have a boundary survey for a parcel in a rural area of North East Florida
- Sorry not in the Seven Hills!!  The Boundary Survey is in CAD, and of
course has no projection.  I need to scale and rotate it into the correct
location.  I am familiar with both the spatial adjust and CAD transformation
toolbars in GIS, and would usually use one of these techniques to drop the
CAD in the correct location.  However, what do I use as the reference base
to align or adjust my CAD boundary to?  The Aerial has limited
distinguishing features; the Tax Parcel Data is terrible and our field crew
located what they believe was the property corners on a trip with a GeoXT
GPS unit.  The property corners we located wrong, if I use them as reference
the property does not align with the limited distinguishing features on the
aerial.  Any clues as to how to fix this now?

 

The above problem is one aspect of the CAD/survey world I personally do not
understand.  It seems like GIS specialists are really good at transforming
data between different software platforms and file types including a slough
of different project systems depending on the intent, scale and location of
the data.  In most cases when working with a CAD or survey person we have to
spend time transferring data from GIS to a platform that they can use, or
converting what they give us to something we can use.  I would think that
with the demanded accuracy of the Surveyors, they would be required to
provide a boundary survey with a projection defined.  The alternative, an
unprojected boundary, allows me a GIS prof. to assign what I believe are the
property boundaries and spatially adjust their 1 part per 1 000,000 survey
to my interpretation of a reference point in an existing dataset or
aerial???  Logical and accurate - NO - hopefully I am doing something wrong
in my methodology of assigning a real-world location to boundary survey,
otherwise whats the point of worrying about an expensive boundary survey?
Last comment was facetious, I understand the need - but surely the analysis
that follows the boundary survey in GIS needs to be as accurate as possible.

 

Bret.

 

  _____  

From: shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Tripp Corbin
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 10:14 AM
To: Tim Spivey; shrug-l at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: RE: shrug-l: surveying

 

Tim,

You are right Georgia is a bit unique when it comes to land systems. We
currently have two different land systems in the state. The Headright system
in the eastern 1/3 of Ga and the Land Lottery system in the the remainder. I
just gave a presentation on Georgia Land History at the GAAO convention. It
was something my Dad and I put together. It is amazing how many folks
mapping or surveying parcels do not know how the original parcels were
created. 

 

I have been attending the SHRUG conference for the last several years.
During that time I have run into folks from all over including south
Georgia, Alabama, the US Virgin Islands, central, eastern, and southern
Florida in addition to those in the pan handle. I would strongly encourage
you to attend. The SHRUG conference is truly one of the best out there. It
is well run with a lot of good presentations and reduced cost training
classes. I look forward to it every year. 

 

 

Tripp Corbin, MCP, CFM, GISP

Associate Vice President, GIS/Mapping

ESRI Authorized Instructor

Keck & Wood, Inc.

 <http://www.keckwood.com/> www.keckwood.com

(678) 417-4013

(678) 417-8785 fax

 

Keck & Wood, Inc offers instructor led and virtual training for ESRI's
ArcGIS & ArcView software.
Please visit www.keckwood.com <http://www.keckwood.com/>  for more
information including a schedule of upcoming classes. 

-----Original Message-----
From: shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Tim Spivey
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 9:56 AM
To: shrug-l at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: shrug-l: surveying

Though we in south Georgia use metes & bounds and the peculiar problems
associated with that system, perhaps this web site will shed some light on
how surveyors work in the real world -

www.samsog.org

There have been some lively GIS/surveyor discussions on their message board,
which have helped me immeasurably, and we have some small dialog between the
GIS and surveyor worlds.

 

And a question - would a south Georgia GIS grunt be welcome at SHRUG
conferences?

 

Tim Spivey

Tift County GA

 


  _____  


From: shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Sykes, John
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 9:32 AM
To: Wolfe, Heather; Mayo, Michele L.; shrug-L at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: RE: shrug-l: Heads Up

Within the past year, I have attended the ESRI San Diego conference, the
SERUG conference and, of course, the last two SHRUG conferences.  Of the
three, the SHRUG meeting has consistently been the best.  I think the mix of
Florida; State, County and Local ArcGIS users creates the best environment
for the exchange of useful information.

 

Don't get me started on surveyors, I've gone through four companies before
getting the workproduct I needed on one site alone (50 - 160+ ft errors
should not occur in a sealed survey).  You've probably seen my latest
postings here about a survey problem, but I have to balance that with
"map-accuracy", widely used GIS layers that I know are off by 50 - 100 ft or
more as well.  Part of the problem is that neither "map-accuracy" nor 1 part
in 10,000 "survey accuracy" are acceptable in today's precision GIS
environment (1 part in 1,000,000 is more like it!).

 

Anyway, my recommendation is not to mess with the SHRUG conference, it is
one of the best around and the price is right.  It will likely be the only
meeting I will get to attend this fiscal year because of the State's travel
& conference cut-backs.

-- John 

 

 


  _____  


From: shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Wolfe, Heather
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 8:55 AM
To: Mayo, Michele L.; shrug-L at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: RE: shrug-l: Heads Up

I'm not in the Seven Hills area, but wanted to submit a thought to the rest
of you. I have always thought that one of the  major sources of disagreement
between surveyors and GIS professionals is that they did not understand each
other's roles. My personal opinion (I am sure some of you feel differently)
is that if I can trust a surveyor to collect field data for me, if he can do
it more accurately than me, and if it is not prohibitively priced for my
organization, let him (or her) go to it! My job is not threatened by this as
the majority of what I do is analyzing data that has already been collected.
I fly a desk, not a Trimble. Neither does my existence as a GIS professional
not under the direct supervision of a surveyor threaten the surveyor's job.
Many times I have questioned about the validity of putting a GPS in the
hands of a field tech instead of a surveyor simply because it's cheaper.
Most of the non-surveyor GPS work that I have seen in different
organizations has been done that way- by field techs, not by expensive GIS
professionals.

 

The second observation is that many GIS professionals I know don't attend
FLURISA because it's "mostly for surveyors" (quote from another GIS
professional I know). Most of us have to choose which conference to go to.
Which should we spend our education allotment on- SHRUG, SERUG, FLURISA or
the San Diego ESRI conference? Usually both SHRUG and FLURISA lose this
contest.  This is a shame because there seems to be a widening breach
between GIS professionals and surveyors, two groups who could cause
incredible change to our world for the better if only we can get along.  

 

In view of that, I think that it would be very beneficial for the two groups
to have a joint conference. More dialogue usually equals more understanding
and eventually cooperation.  This seems like a great opportunity to help
along the relationship between our two groups. Will it make SHRUG bigger?
Maybe. Is that bad? Sometimes. But there are many issues in Florida where
the participation of more people would be beneficial to all (standardized
shapefiles, to name just one).  I think that in this situation the greater
good outweighs the lesser evil. 

 

Thanks for listening to my soapbox speech!

 

Heather Wolfe
Sr. GIS Analyst, Planning & Development
Seminole County Government
1101 E. First St.
Sanford, FL 32771

Office 407-665-7378
Fax 407-665-7412
HWolfe at seminolecountyfl.gov
www.seminolecountyfl.gov

 

 


  _____  


From: Mayo, Michele L. [mailto:Michele.Mayo at dep.state.fl.us] 
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 5:09 PM
To: shrug-L at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: shrug-l: Heads Up

Hello List,

A proposal was introduced in Thursday's SHRUG quarterly meeting to
investigate a merger of our annual conference with that of FLURISA, known as
the Joint Mapping Conference.

Lee Hartsfield, current SHRUG president, announced that he had recently been
elected president of FLURISA.  Lee now serves as president for both
organizations.  After giving a very general outline of his proposal to
discuss combining the two conferences, Lee asked the small gathering to vote
for or against further discussions with FLURISA, saying that, according to
SHRUG by-laws, there were enough people present to take a vote on the
matter.  Although several of us expressed reservations, Lee did take a vote
and his motion was carried.

This is not a trivial decision.  In my opinion, any proposal that could
fundamentally change the character of our organization should be put to the
SHRUG membership at large before any negotiations are conducted with outside
parties.  The grass-roots character of SHRUG has kept our organization
strong, solvent, vibrant and valuable for eight years.  We could lose that
if we fail to keep the membership informed and involved in plotting our
future course.

If this proposed action concerns you, please let your SHRUG officers know.
Their contact information can be found here:

http://www.shrug-gis.info/shrug_business.htm

Michele Mayo, GISP

Florida DEP, Beaches and Coastal Systems

Coastal Data Acquisition Section

3900 Commonwealth Blvd. MS 300

Tallahassee, FL 32399-3000

850.413.7776

 <mailto:michele.mayo at dep.state.fl.us> michele.mayo at dep.state.fl.us

 <http://www.floridadep.org/beaches/programs/cda.htm>
www.floridadep.org/beaches/programs/cda.htm

 

-****Florida has a very broad Public Records Law. Virtually all written
communications to or from State and Local Officials and employees are public
records available to the public and media upon request. Seminole County
policy does not differentiate between personal and business emails. E-mail
sent on the County system will be considered public and will only be
withheld from disclosure if deemed confidential pursuant to State Law.****-

 

-****Florida has a very broad Public Records Law. Virtually all written
communications to or from State and Local Officials and employees are public
records available to the public and media upon request. Seminole County
policy does not differentiate between personal and business emails. E-mail
sent on the County system will be considered public and will only be
withheld from disclosure if deemed confidential pursuant to State Law.****-


  _____  

I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 2562 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>  for free now!

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.dep.state.fl.us/pipermail/shrug-l/attachments/20070723/d2ae1554/attachment-0001.htm


More information about the SHRUG-L mailing list