<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11">
<meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 11">
<link rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01C606F6.C21E1270">
<link rel=Edit-Time-Data href="cid:editdata.mso">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:FormsDesign/>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>
<w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>
<w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>
<w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156">
</w:LatentStyles>
</xml><![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:536902279 -2147483648 8 0 511 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;
mso-font-charset:2;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:0 268435456 0 0 -2147483648 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:1627421319 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.emailstyle18
{mso-style-name:emailstyle18;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.emailstyle19
{mso-style-name:emailstyle19;
font-family:Helvetica;
mso-ascii-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-hansi-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica;
color:maroon;}
span.emailstyle20
{mso-style-name:emailstyle20;
font-family:Helvetica;
mso-ascii-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-hansi-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica;
color:maroon;}
span.emailstyle21
{mso-style-name:emailstyle21;
font-family:Helvetica;
mso-ascii-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-hansi-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-bidi-font-family:Helvetica;
color:maroon;}
span.emailstyle22
{mso-style-name:emailstyle22;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Helvetica;
mso-ascii-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-hansi-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Helvetica;
mso-ascii-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-hansi-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon;}
span.EmailStyle26
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Helvetica;
mso-ascii-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-hansi-font-family:Helvetica;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}
</style>
<![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'>I’m done with this as well since the discussion seems to have
changed from the original topic anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'>Happy Holidays!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Thomas, Jim
[mailto:jim_thomas@golder.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
12:45 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Hughes, Ronald; Paulsen, Janis<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>1. When you 'clear' data frame's
coordinate system, there is no 'project on the fly' because ArcMap doesn't know
what to project any of the data to. My data was in two different places,
which proves that <strong><b><font face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>the
geometry changed</span></font></b></strong>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>2. Alan Elebash added... </span></font><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'>"If your data's </span><span xmlns:user="http://www.esri.com/ContentStudio"
xmlns:msxsl="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt"></font><!--[if supportFields]><font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'><span style='mso-element:field-begin'></span><a
href="blocked::javascript:glossary_geographic_coordinate_system22168.Click()"
title="BLOCKED::javascript:glossary_geographic_coordinate_system22168.Click() javascript:glossary_geographic_coordinate_system22168.Click() Glossary term: geographic coordinate system">geographic
coordinate system</a></span> uses a different <span style='mso-element:field-begin'></span><span
xmlns:user="http://www.esri.com/ContentStudio" xmlns:msxsl="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt"><a
href="blocked::javascript:glossary_datum22168.Click()"
title="BLOCKED::javascript:glossary_datum22168.Click() javascript:glossary_datum22168.Click() Glossary term: datum">datum</a></span>
than that of the new feature class, you will likely write spatially inaccurate
data." </span></font><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>This is where datum
transformation comes in to play. There's no guarantee that the Export
tool will transform datum correctly.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>3. Alan's email also stated:
"When you export data from ArcMap, you can choose to create a new <span
xmlns:user="http://www.esri.com/ContentStudio" xmlns:msxsl="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt"><span
style='mso-element:field-begin'></span><a
href="javascript:glossary_feature_class22168.Click()"
title="javascript:glossary_feature_class22168.Click() Glossary term: feature class">feature
class</a></span> using a different coordinate system than that of the source
data..." The tool does not simply re-define.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>One thing is certain. A geometric
change does occur. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I won't tie up the Shrug members any
longer with this issue today.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Hughes,
Ronald [mailto:Ronald.Hughes@dep.state.fl.us] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
12:32 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Thomas, Jim; Paulsen, Janis<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'>Thomas I’ll repeat it one more time.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>If you bring it into another GIS product
that doesn’t “project on the fly”, you will see that the
geometry has not changed.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>That’s
is what Janis did.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'>Just a moment ago, you said that the Export Data Tool IS NOT a
re-projection tool, but now you are saying that it IS and you were correct the
whole time?<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>I’m not sure what
your datum argument is either since I’ve already explained datum
transformation.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Thomas, Jim
[mailto:jim_thomas@golder.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
12:23 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Hughes, Ronald; Paulsen, Janis<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I've tested my theory - the
Export Data tool created a brand new shapefile in a completely different
geometry consistent with the data frame's coordinate system (i tested this by
'clearing' the data frame coordinate system - that's the same as bringing the
two datasets into ArcView GIS). My point is that the Export Data tools
will re-project. Although, is appears there is no guarantee that it
will transform the datums correctly... </span></font><font color=blue><span
style='color:blue'>"If your data's <span style='mso-element:field-begin'></span><span
xmlns:user="http://www.esri.com/ContentStudio" xmlns:msxsl="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt"><a
href="BLOCKED::javascript:glossary_geographic_coordinate_system22168.Click()"
title="javascript:glossary_geographic_coordinate_system22168.Click() Glossary term: geographic coordinate system">geographic
coordinate system</a> uses a different <span style='mso-element:field-begin'></span><a
href="BLOCKED::javascript:glossary_datum22168.Click()"
title="javascript:glossary_datum22168.Click() Glossary term: datum"><span
xmlns:msxsl="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt" xmlns:user="http://www.esri.com/ContentStudio">datum</a></span>
than that of the new feature class, you will likely write spatially inaccurate
data."</span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>ESRI would not program the tool and
keep it in ArcGIS 9 if the option wasn't dependable most of the time. Is
there anyone from ESRI who would like to chime in?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Hughes,
Ronald [mailto:Ronald.Hughes@dep.state.fl.us] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
12:08 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Paulsen, Janis; Thomas, Jim<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'>Thank you Janis.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>This
is the point I was making.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>As
I’d mentioned previously, it is the “on the fly projection”
in ArcGIS that makes them to overlay, but as you pointed out, when you use a
product that doesn’t have “on the fly projection” you see
that the geometry didn’t change.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span>Only the projection definition changed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:maroon'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Paulsen, Janis <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
12:04 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Hughes, Ronald; Thomas, Jim<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I thought I’d jump in here. I
just ran a little experiment. I brought in two differently projected
shapefiles into ArcMap 9.0. They were reprojected on the fly in ArcMap. In
ArcMap, both shapefiles overlaid each other correctly. I set the
dataframe coordinate system to GCS North American NAD 83 HARN. I did a
data export on both shapefiles selecting the “use same coordinate system
as data frame” option. I then brought both shapefiles into ArcView
3.x. The both loaded into the apr, but did not overlay eachother.
This tells me that AcrView allowed them both to be brought in because they were
assigned the same coordinate system, but they were not actually reprojected
geometrically, since they did not draw in the same place in space.
Interesting.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Janis</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Hughes, Ronald<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
11:47 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Thomas, Jim<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Sorry
Thomas, but it doesn’t re-project. That method you used simply
re-defines the projection unless they’ve changed it in Version 9x (which
is highly doubtful). If you want to change the geometry, you’ll
need to use ArcToolbox. It’s simply isn’t good practice to
assign incorrect projection files to spatial data.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>I
hope that clears things up.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Thomas,
Jim [mailto:jim_thomas@golder.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
11:33 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Hughes, Ronald<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>It's not simply
re-defining. It's re-projecting. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>When you use the 'Export Data...'
tool from ArcMap you can select the export coordinate system (see attached
jpg). It will re-project the data to what you define.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The Shruggers can use
whatever method works best for them.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Hughes,
Ronald [mailto:Ronald.Hughes@dep.state.fl.us] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
11:23 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Thomas, Jim;
shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Actually
Thomas, the problem with that is that the NEW shapefile will still be in
STATEPLANE projection. In other words, the geometry or “physical
condition” remains as STATEPLANE. All you’ve done is
re-define the projection file. Defining a projection and actually
RE-PROJECTING a shapefile are two separate things. Re-projecting a
shapefile involves changing its geometry and topology while re-defining the
projection only changes a text file. You never want to assign an
incorrect projection file to a shapefile because it tends to lead to trouble if
you send that file to somebody else and then they try to re-project that shapefile
using incorrect projection information. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>The
reason that it appears to work for you is because of the ArcGIS
“projection on the fly” capability. If you were to use a GIS
product that doesn’t project “on-the-fly” you would see that
re-defining the projection file hasn’t changed the geometry of the
shapefile: it’s still in STATEPLANE.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>As
far as datum transformation is concerned, when switching between certain
coordinate systems, you may wind up using different datum and need to transform
from one datum to the next. For example when I was using ArcGIS version
8x and projected from STATEPLANE NAD83 datum to Geographic North American 1983
HARN datum I would get the following error message:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'><img
border=0 width=480 height=410 id="_x0000_i1027" src="%20" NOSEND=1></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>I
would then have to set the transformation from NAD_1983 to HARN_Florida:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'><img
border=0 width=422 height=301 id="_x0000_i1028" src="%20" NOSEND=1></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Many
people think that redefining the projection of a shapefile is the same and
projecting a shapefile but it is not. I hope that I’ve contributed
to clearing this up.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Good
luck,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Ron</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Thomas,
Jim [mailto:jim_thomas@golder.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
10:52 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Hughes, Ronald;
shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The steps I listed will
work too. You can export a NEW shapefile from ArcMap in the spatial
reference of the data frame (which can be different than the original
shapefile). As long as everything is defined correctly, you'll have no
problem. I do it all the time.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>As far as the datum
transformation list... that's a good question. I always wondered that.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Hughes, Ronald<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
10:32 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Actually,
you need to use ArcToolbox to reproject the shapefile. All the steps
mention below do is re-define the projection file. It would be analogous
to assigning a new mailing address to you home without physically moving it
from its current location. In other words, if your house sits at 800 Main
Street and you change the address to 21 Jump Street, the house still remains at
800 Main Street. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>The
Present version of ArcToolbox that I have (ArcGIS 9.1) is different from that
what I’d previously had but it appears to work the same way.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Open
up ArcToolbox and select Data Management Tools </span></font><font size=2
color=maroon face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:maroon'>à</span></font><font size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> Projections and
Transformations </span></font><font size=2 color=maroon face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:maroon'>à</span></font><font
size=2 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:maroon'> Project. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Click
on Project and a menu should come up that asks for your imput feature and
output (in ArcGIS 9.1 it automatically assigns a ‘P’ at the end of
the name of the input and places it in the output. Select the projection
that you want for the output by clicking on the button to the right of the
input window. That will bring up a menu called “Spatial Reference
Properties”.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>1.)
Click the button labeled “Select”.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>2.)
Click the Geographic Coordinate Systems folder</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>3.)
Click the North America folder and select the coordinate system that you want
(probably North American 1983 HARN.prj).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>4.)
Click the “Add” button and select “OK”.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>If
you have any other questions just ask. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=maroon
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>Good
luck!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us [mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Thomas, Jim<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
9:34 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> tdarsey@hsa.cc;
shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>1. Define your
shapefile's spatial reference in ArcCatalog</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>2. Load the shapefile
into ArcMap</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>3. Change the data frame
spatial reference to Lat/Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>4. Export the new
shapefile using the data frame's spatial reference (during export)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>5. That's it.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us [mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Tony Darsey<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December 22, 2005
9:30 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> shrug-l: Lat-Long</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone tell me how to convert a
shape file from State Plane to Lat/Long?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>Thanks,</span></font></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Tony Darsey</span></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>HSA Consulting Group, Inc.</span></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>1311 Executive Center Drive, Suite 255</span></b>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Tallahassee, FL 32301</span></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Phone (850) 309-7510</span></b> <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Fax (850) 309-7510</span></b>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cell (850) 508-6477</span></b>
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>email tdarsey@hsa.cc</span></b> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><span style='mso-element:field-end'></span><span style='mso-element:
field-end'></span><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
</SPAN></P></DIV></BODY>