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<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial>Bret,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial>While the worlds of GIS and
Surveyors overlap in many places, they serve to different purposes. I have
worked in both worlds so have a good understanding of these
issues.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial>Surveyors are normally only
worried about a single project and how the parts of that project relate to
itself. If this is a property survey, then they are concerned with determining
location of that parcels boundary lines and how those relate to the adjacent
parcels. They do not care how that fits with the rest of the world. We in GIS
are more concerned with how the big picture fits together. While we do want our
data to be as accurate as possible in many cases if something is off by a few
feet then it is not as big a deal as it is for a surveyor determining property
ownership. So as a result, Surveyors and GIS folks have different views of
what data is needed, how it should be used and how it should be collected.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial>You add to that the fact
that most folks do not understand what a Surveyor really does and as a result
are not willing to pay what it would really cost to perform a full survey. I
have heard clients say "All you do is stand on the side of the road and take
pictures" when talking about getting a survey done. They have no idea the amount
of research, field work and office calculations goes into doing a complete
boundary survey. As a result Surveyors are forced to do the bare minimum work
needed to complete a boundary survey or they go out of business. In Georgia you
are not required to tie a survey to state plane or other coordinate system
unless you are within 500 feet of a NGS monument. Now many local governments
have developed stricter requirements that force new surveys and developments to
be tied to State Plane coordinates but that is not the norm at least not here in
Georgia. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial>As to your specific
problem, I would use a combination of aerial identifiable points and other map
features to georeference the drawing. Will you get a perfect fit? No but it
should be close. Remember GIS is not used to determine ownership. That is the
job of a Professional Surveyor. There is a reason GIS grade GPS such as the GEO
XT is only accurate to the submeter level and that survey grade is accurate to
the sub-centimeter level. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=201232515-23072007><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left>Tripp Corbin, MCP,
CFM, GISP</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left>Associate Vice
President, GIS/Mapping</P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left><I>ESRI Authorized
Instructor</I></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left><B>Keck & Wood,
Inc.</B></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left><A
href="http://www.keckwood.com/"><FONT color=#0000ff><U><FONT
size=2>www.keckwood.com</FONT></U></FONT></A></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left><FONT size=2>(678)
417-4013</FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left><FONT size=2>(678)
417-8785 fax</FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px" align=left><B>Keck & Wood,
Inc</B> offers instructor led and virtual training for ESRI's ArcGIS &
ArcView software.<BR>Please visit <A href="http://www.keckwood.com/"><FONT
color=#0000ff><U>www.keckwood.com</U></FONT></A> for more information including
a schedule of upcoming classes. <BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Bret
Whiteley<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 23, 2007 11:19 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: shrug-l:
surveying<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">SHRUGGERS,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Okay so my work this
morning fits in nicely with recent discussions.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a boundary
survey for a parcel in a rural area of North East Florida – Sorry not in the
Seven Hills!! The Boundary Survey is in CAD, and of course has no
projection. I need to scale and rotate it into the correct
location. I am familiar with both the spatial adjust and CAD
transformation toolbars in GIS, and would usually use one of these techniques
to drop the CAD in the correct location. However, what do I use as the
reference base to align or adjust my CAD boundary to? The Aerial has
limited distinguishing features; the Tax Parcel Data is terrible and our field
crew located what they believe was the property corners on a trip with a GeoXT
GPS unit. The property corners we located wrong, if I use them as
reference the property does not align with the limited distinguishing features
on the aerial. Any clues as to how to fix this
now?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The above problem is
one aspect of the CAD/survey world I personally do not understand. It
seems like GIS specialists are really good at transforming data between
different software platforms and file types including a slough of different
project systems depending on the intent, scale and location of the data.
In most cases when working with a CAD or survey person we have to spend time
transferring data from GIS to a platform that they can use, or converting what
they give us to something we can use. I would think that with the
demanded accuracy of the Surveyors, they would be required to provide a
boundary survey with a projection defined. The alternative, an
unprojected boundary, allows me a GIS prof. to assign what I believe are the
property boundaries and spatially adjust their 1 part per 1 000,000 survey to
my interpretation of a reference point in an existing dataset or
aerial??? Logical and accurate – NO – hopefully I am doing something
wrong in my methodology of assigning a real-world location to boundary survey,
otherwise whats the point of worrying about an expensive boundary
survey? Last comment was facetious, I understand the need – but surely
the analysis that follows the boundary survey in GIS needs to be as accurate
as possible.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bret.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Tripp Corbin<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 23, 2007 10:14
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Tim Spivey;
<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: shrug-l:
surveying</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tim,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You are right <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Georgia</st1:place></st1:country-region> is a
bit unique when it comes to land systems. We currently have two different land
systems in the state. The Headright system in the eastern 1/3 of Ga and the
Land Lottery system in the the remainder. I just gave a presentation on
Georgia Land History at the GAAO convention. It was something my Dad and I put
together. It is amazing how many folks mapping or surveying parcels do not
know how the original parcels were created. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have been attending the SHRUG
conference for the last several years. During that time I have run into folks
from all over including south Georgia, <st1:State
w:st="on">Alabama</st1:State>, the US Virgin Islands, central, eastern, and
southern <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State> in addition to those in the pan
handle. I would strongly encourage you to attend. The SHRUG conference is
truly one of the best out there. It is well run with a lot of good
presentations and reduced cost training classes. I look forward to it every
year. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Tripp Corbin, MCP, CFM,
GISP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Associate Vice President,
GIS/Mapping<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-STYLE: italic">ESRI Authorized
Instructor</SPAN></FONT></I><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Keck & Wood,
Inc.</SPAN></FONT></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A href="http://www.keckwood.com/"><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.keckwood.com</SPAN></FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(678) 417-4013</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(678) 417-8785 fax</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Keck & Wood,
Inc</SPAN></FONT></B> offers instructor led and virtual training for ESRI's
ArcGIS & ArcView software.<BR>Please visit <A
href="http://www.keckwood.com/">www.keckwood.com</A> for more information
including a schedule of upcoming classes. <o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Tim Spivey<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 23, 2007 9:56
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">shrug-l@lists.dep.state.fl.us</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> shrug-l:
surveying</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Though we in south
Georgia use metes & bounds and the peculiar problems associated with
that system, perhaps this web site will shed some light on how surveyors
work in the real world -</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
href="http://www.samsog.org">www.samsog.org</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There have been
some lively GIS/surveyor discussions on their message board, which
have helped me immeasurably, and we have some small dialog between the
GIS and surveyor worlds.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And a question -
would a south Georgia GIS grunt be welcome at SHRUG
conferences?</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tim
Spivey</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on"><FONT
face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tift</SPAN></FONT></st1:PlaceName><FONT
face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">GA</st1:PlaceName></SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Sykes, John<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 23, 2007 9:32
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Wolfe, Heather;
Mayo, Michele L.; shrug-L@lists.dep.state.fl.us<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: shrug-l: Heads
Up</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Within the past year, I have attended
the ESRI San Diego conference, the SERUG conference and, of course, the
last two SHRUG conferences. Of the three, the SHRUG meeting has
consistently been the best. I think the mix of <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State>; State,
County and Local ArcGIS users creates the best environment for the exchange
of useful information.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Don't get me started on surveyors, I've
gone through four companies before getting the workproduct I needed on one
site alone (50 - 160+ ft errors should not occur in a sealed survey).
You've probably seen my latest postings here about a survey problem, but I
have to balance that with "map-accuracy", widely used GIS layers that I know
are off by 50 - 100 ft or more as well. Part of the problem is that
neither "map-accuracy" nor 1 part in 10,000 "survey accuracy" are acceptable
in today's precision GIS environment (1 part in 1,000,000 is more like
it!).</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue">Anyway, my recommendation is not to
mess with the SHRUG conference, it is one of the best around and the price
is right. It will likely be the only meeting I will get to attend this
fiscal year because of the State's travel & conference
cut-backs.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><B><FONT face="Brush Script MT" size=6><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 24pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">--
John</SPAN></FONT></B> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:shrug-l-bounces@lists.dep.state.fl.us] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Wolfe, Heather<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, July 23, 2007 8:55
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Mayo, Michele L.;
shrug-L@lists.dep.state.fl.us<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: shrug-l: Heads
Up</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm not in the
Seven Hills area, but wanted to submit a thought to the rest of you. I have
always thought that one of the major sources of disagreement
between surveyors and GIS professionals is that they did not understand each
other's roles. My personal opinion (I am sure some of you feel differently)
is that if I can trust a surveyor to collect field data for me, if he can do
it more accurately than me, and if it is not prohibitively priced for my
organization, let him (or her) go to it! My job is not threatened by
this as the majority of what I do is analyzing data that has already been
collected. I fly a desk, not a Trimble. Neither does my existence as a GIS
professional not under the direct supervision of a surveyor threaten the
surveyor's job. Many times I have questioned about the validity of
putting a GPS in the hands of a field tech instead of a surveyor simply
because it's cheaper. Most of the non-surveyor GPS work that I have seen in
different organizations has been done that way- by field techs, not by
expensive GIS professionals.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The second
observation is that many GIS professionals I know don't attend FLURISA
because it's "mostly for surveyors" (quote from another GIS professional I
know). Most of us have to choose which conference to go to. Which should we
spend our education allotment on- SHRUG, SERUG, FLURISA or the San
Diego ESRI conference? Usually both SHRUG and FLURISA lose this
contest. This is a shame because there seems to be a widening breach
between GIS professionals and surveyors, two groups who could cause
incredible change to our world for the better if only we can get
along. </SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In view of that, I
think that it would be very beneficial for the two groups to have a joint
conference. More dialogue usually equals more understanding and eventually
cooperation. This seems like a great opportunity to help along the
relationship between our two groups. Will it make SHRUG bigger? Maybe. Is
that bad? Sometimes. But there are many issues in <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State> where the
participation of more people would be beneficial to all (standardized
shapefiles, to name just one). I think that in this situation the
greater good outweighs the lesser evil. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for
listening to my soapbox speech!</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Heather
Wolfe<BR>Sr. GIS Analyst, Planning & Development<BR>Seminole <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Government</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><BR>1101 E. <st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">First
St</st1:address></st1:Street>.<BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Sanford</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">FL</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">32771</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><BR><BR>Office
407-665-7378<BR>Fax
407-665-7412<BR>HWolfe@seminolecountyfl.gov<BR>www.seminolecountyfl.gov</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Mayo, Michele L.
[mailto:Michele.Mayo@dep.state.fl.us] <BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, July 20, 2007 5:09
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
shrug-L@lists.dep.state.fl.us<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> shrug-l: Heads
Up</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue">Hello
List,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue"><O:P></O:P>A proposal was introduced in
Thursday's SHRUG quarterly meeting to investigate a merger of our annual
conference with that of FLURISA, known as the Joint Mapping
Conference.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:PERSONNAME u1:st="on"><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue"><O:P></O:P>Lee
Hartsfield</ST1:PERSONNAME>, current SHRUG president, announced that he had
recently been elected president of FLURISA. Lee now serves as
president for both organizations. After giving a very general outline
of his proposal to discuss combining the two conferences, Lee asked the
small gathering to vote for or against further discussions with FLURISA,
saying that, according to SHRUG by-laws, there were enough people present to
take a vote on the matter. Although several of us expressed
reservations, Lee did take a vote and his motion was
carried.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue"><O:P></O:P>This is not a trivial
decision. In my opinion, any proposal that could fundamentally change
the character of our organization should be put to the SHRUG membership at
large before any negotiations are conducted with outside parties. The
grass-roots character of SHRUG has kept our organization strong, solvent,
vibrant and valuable for eight years. We could lose that if we fail to
keep the membership informed and involved in plotting our future
course.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue"><O:P></O:P>If this proposed action
concerns you, please let your SHRUG officers know. Their contact
information can be found here:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: blue"><O:P></O:P><A
href="http://www.shrug-gis.info/shrug_business.htm">http://www.shrug-gis.info/shrug_business.htm</A><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><B><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P>Michele
Mayo</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue">,
GISP</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P><O:P></O:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:STATE u1:st="on"><ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue">Florida</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:State></ST1:PLACE></ST1:STATE><FONT
color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> DEP, Beaches
and Coastal Systems</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P><O:P></O:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue">Coastal Data Acquisition
Section</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P><O:P></O:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:STREET u1:st="on"><ST1:ADDRESS
u1:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue">3900
Commonwealth
Blvd.</SPAN></FONT></st1:address></st1:Street></ST1:ADDRESS></ST1:STREET><FONT
color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"> MS
300</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P><O:P></O:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue">Tallahassee</SPAN></FONT></st1:City><FONT
color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue"></ST1:CITY>,
<ST1:STATE u1:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">FL</st1:State></ST1:STATE>
<ST1:POSTALCODE u1:st="on"><st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">32399-3000</st1:PostalCode></ST1:POSTALCODE></SPAN></FONT></st1:place></ST1:PLACE><o:p></o:p></P><O:P></O:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue">850.413.7776</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P><O:P></O:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A
href="mailto:michele.mayo@dep.state.fl.us"><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">michele.mayo@dep.state.fl.us</SPAN></FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><O:P></O:P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A
href="http://www.floridadep.org/beaches/programs/cda.htm"><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.floridadep.org/beaches/programs/cda.htm</SPAN></FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN><O:P></O:P></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><O:P></O:P> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">-****<st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State> has a very
broad Public Records Law. Virtually all written communications to or from
State and Local Officials and employees are public records available to the
public and media upon request. <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Seminole</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> policy does not differentiate
between personal and business emails. E-mail sent on the County system will
be considered public and will only be withheld from disclosure if deemed
confidential pursuant to State
Law.****-<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Courier New" size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">-****<st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:State> has a very
broad Public Records Law. Virtually all written communications to or from
State and Local Officials and employees are public records available to the
public and media upon request. <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Seminole</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> policy does not differentiate
between personal and business emails. E-mail sent on the County system will
be considered public and will only be withheld from disclosure if deemed
confidential pursuant to State
Law.****-<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
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