[Pharmwaste] Re: Pharmwaste Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 - Hand Sanitizer

Gilliam, Allen GILLIAM at adeq.state.ar.us
Wed Sep 30 12:06:22 EDT 2009


We have created a new generation with Verminophobia.  My wife's been in
the education system for 30 years and she can't ever remember seeing as
many small kids trying to open doors or turning on/off faucets with
their elbows to the point OCD.

In my day, dropping my baloney samwich on the ground just took some
swift brushing off the dust and continue eating.

Allen g

-----Original Message-----
From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Meryl
Klein
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:04 AM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: [Pharmwaste] Re: Pharmwaste Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 - Hand
Sanitizer


Has anyone thought of doing a life cycle analysis on resources used
(soap and water [remember that water is fast becoming a commodity]) vs.
sanitizer and comparing the effectiveness of both.  I know there was a
study back in the early 2000s comparing handwashing and alcohol-based
sanitizers and they found that the sanitizers with moisturizers were
better for hospital employees who had to wash often as the soap and
water and plain sanitizer dried the hands too much and let in infection.
Triclosan should definitely be banned.  Period.


Perhaps there are times when small children, unless strictly monitored,
are not up to the task of properly washing their hands.  I watch my own
four year old wash mostly properly and then cringe when she touches the
sink and just about every other surface there is in the public restroom
despite my explanations of why we should not do this after she washes
her hands.


I think there is a place for both proper handwashing and sanitizer.






On Sep 29, 2009, at 6:52 PM, pharmwaste-request at lists.dep.state.fl.us
wrote:


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Today's Topics:


   1. RE: hand sanitizer (Suhr, Marcus W.)
   2. RE: RE: hand sanitizer (Lyle Milby)
   3. RE: RE: hand sanitizer (Gressitt, Stevan)
   4. Re: RE: hand sanitizer (TBadrick at aol.com)
   5. RE: RE: hand sanitizer (Matthew C. Mireles)
   6. RE: RE: hand sanitizer (Volkman, Jennifer)
   7. RE: RE: hand sanitizer (Matthew C. Mireles)




----------------------------------------------------------------------


Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:19:33 -0400
From: "Suhr, Marcus W." <MSuhr at ChristianaCare.org>
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer
To: <pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us>
Message-ID:
<D69AAE0446628A44B9869C47841645FF0D85FD18 at eschrmb01.mcd.pri>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


I read an article where a child was poisoned by alcohol sanitizer
recently.  Its only a matter of time before a child dies, or they start
getting the swift idea of lighting it.  My own step-son was required by
the school to bring a bottle to begin the year.  This is a clear example
of bringing an item to market, and not enough controls.  Everyone thinks
sanitizer is so great.  


Anyone else being requested to bring it to school?    


Marcus Suhr, ASP 
Industrial Hygienist 
Christiana Care Health Services 
Occupational Safety Department, Office L840J 
4755 Ogletown-Stanton Road 
Newark, DE 19718 
302-733-3787 (office)
302-573-7662 (pager) 
302-733-3771 (fax) 
MSuhr at christianacare.org








------------------------------


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:27:37 -0500
From: "Lyle Milby" <Lyle.Milby at NormanOK.gov>
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer
To: "Suhr, Marcus W." <MSuhr at ChristianaCare.org>,
<pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us>
Message-ID:
<178AEFF1493D434386CF580401CFED0F449BB5 at ponyexpress.ci.norman.ok.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Our school system is putting these out in all of the schools at the
recommendation of the County Health Department in response to H1N1.  Our
Fire Department expressed reservations but they decided to go ahead with
it.  I assume it is an alcohol based product because of the fire
department concern.


Lyle Milby
City of Norman
Environmental Services
P.O. Box 370
Norman, OK  73070
(405) 292-9731
lyle.milby at normanok.gov




-----Original Message-----
From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Suhr,
Marcus W.
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:20 PM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer


I read an article where a child was poisoned by alcohol sanitizer
recently.  Its only a matter of time before a child dies, or they start
getting the swift idea of lighting it.  My own step-son was required by
the school to bring a bottle to begin the year.  This is a clear example
of bringing an item to market, and not enough controls.  Everyone thinks
sanitizer is so great.  


Anyone else being requested to bring it to school?    


Marcus Suhr, ASP 
Industrial Hygienist 
Christiana Care Health Services 
Occupational Safety Department, Office L840J 
4755 Ogletown-Stanton Road 
Newark, DE 19718 
302-733-3787 (office)
302-573-7662 (pager) 
302-733-3771 (fax) 
MSuhr at christianacare.org




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------------------------------


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:39:07 -0400
From: "Gressitt, Stevan" <Stevan.Gressitt at maine.gov>
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer
To: "Lyle Milby" <Lyle.Milby at NormanOK.gov>, "Suhr, Marcus W."
<MSuhr at ChristianaCare.org>, <pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us>
Message-ID:
<0F9DE263E5900443A7E41D68717431670360206B at SOM-TEAQASMAIL6.som.w2k.state.
me.us>


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


Let's see, 62% Ethyl Alcohol= 124 proof? Jack Daniels is what? 


Stevan Gressitt, M.D., Medical Director
Office of Adult Mental Health Services
Department of Health and Human Services
Marquardt Building, 2nd Floor
11 State House Station
32 Blossom Lane
Augusta, ME  04333-0011
Ph: (207)287-4273
Fax: (207)287-1022
Cell Phone: (207) 441-0291
E-Mail : stevan.gressitt at maine.gov
http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/mh/


Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s).  It may contain
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use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not the
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copying of this is strictly prohibited.  Please contact me by reply
e-mail or telephone and destroy all copies of this message.






-----Original Message-----
From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Lyle
Milby
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:28 PM
To: Suhr, Marcus W.; pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer


Our school system is putting these out in all of the schools at the
recommendation of the County Health Department in response to H1N1.  Our
Fire Department expressed reservations but they decided to go ahead with
it.  I assume it is an alcohol based product because of the fire
department concern.


Lyle Milby
City of Norman
Environmental Services
P.O. Box 370
Norman, OK  73070
(405) 292-9731
lyle.milby at normanok.gov




-----Original Message-----
From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Suhr,
Marcus W.
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:20 PM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer


I read an article where a child was poisoned by alcohol sanitizer
recently.  Its only a matter of time before a child dies, or they start
getting the swift idea of lighting it.  My own step-son was required by
the school to bring a bottle to begin the year.  This is a clear example
of bringing an item to market, and not enough controls.  Everyone thinks
sanitizer is so great.  


Anyone else being requested to bring it to school?    


Marcus Suhr, ASP 
Industrial Hygienist 
Christiana Care Health Services 
Occupational Safety Department, Office L840J 
4755 Ogletown-Stanton Road 
Newark, DE 19718 
302-733-3787 (office)
302-573-7662 (pager) 
302-733-3771 (fax) 
MSuhr at christianacare.org




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------------------------------


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:01:30 EDT
From: TBadrick at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Message-ID: <c0a.649e2680.37f3ddba at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


I refer to them as little bombs in the hospital.  In an age where fire  
marshals freak out over recycling containers size due to fire
risk....its okay  
to put aerosol containers (otherwise known as compressed gas cylinders)
of  
flammable materials every twenty feet or so along a wall?..  gee I feel

safe now.  Whatever happened to soap and water and proper technique?
is that 
too complicated?  This is what happens when rampant uneducated fear
trumps 
science and logic.


I clearly remember the day, sitting in the Reno airport bar and Wolf  
Blitzer comes on TV with a special report about deadly MRSA...all I
could think  
about was how this would put a halt to all other hospital projects to
solve 
a  problem that really wasn't a problem, because guess what MRSA is
already  
everywhere and that just employing proper hand washing would do just  
fine....sigghhhh, I must be getting older ;-)


Tom Badrick
Badrick Consulting






In a message dated 9/29/2009 12:28:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
Lyle.Milby at NormanOK.gov writes:


Our  school system is putting these out in all of the schools at  the
recommendation of the County Health Department in response to  H1N1.
Our
Fire Department expressed reservations but they decided to  go ahead
with
it.  I assume it is an alcohol based product because of  the fire
department concern.


Lyle Milby
City of  Norman
Environmental Services
P.O. Box 370
Norman, OK   73070
(405) 292-9731
lyle.milby at normanok.gov




-----Original  Message-----
From:  pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us]  On Behalf Of Suhr,
Marcus W.
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:20  PM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand  sanitizer


I read an article where a child was poisoned by alcohol  sanitizer
recently.  Its only a matter of time before a child dies, or  they start
getting the swift idea of lighting it.  My own step-son was  required by
the school to bring a bottle to begin the year.  This is a  clear
example
of bringing an item to market, and not enough controls.   Everyone
thinks
sanitizer is so great.  


Anyone else being  requested to bring it to school?    


Marcus Suhr, ASP  
Industrial Hygienist 
Christiana Care Health Services 
Occupational  Safety Department, Office L840J 
4755 Ogletown-Stanton Road 
Newark, DE  19718 
302-733-3787 (office)
302-573-7662 (pager) 
302-733-3771 (fax)  
MSuhr at christianacare.org




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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:19:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew C. Mireles" <mirelesmc at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer
To: "Gressitt,Stevan" <Stevan.Gressitt at maine.gov>, Lyle Milby
<Lyle.Milby at NormanOK.gov>, "Suhr,Marcus W."
<MSuhr at ChristianaCare.org>, pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Cc: linkfilion at yahoo.com, Elizabeth Smith <smithce at flash.net>,
jamiller at communityofcompetence.com
Message-ID:
<33222853.1254262784422.JavaMail.root at elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net
>


Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


Dr. Jerry Miller, an epidemiologist, at our Foundation would be a good
person to consult with.  He did a fellowship at CDC in Atlanta and is
now our VP for Research.


For schools and some clinical facilitites, we recommend simple, proper
handwashing with soap and warm water as well as prudent hygiene and
sanitation practices.  Some school districts are presenting learning
lessons with practices in the lavatory for the correct handwashing.  I
heard one school has kids reciting the alphabet A-Z (approx 15
sec--about same time recommended by CDC for kids) to time how long they
should lather hands with soap before rinsing.  Paper napkins or
motion-sensed driers are used to dry hands.  Some even instruct kids to
avoid touching door handles and open the door with a paper napkin and
throw the napkin the waste basket right outside the restroom.


Kids are reminded to cover their nose and mouths with tissue when they
sneeze or cough.  If tissue paper is not available, they are instructed
to cough or sneeze into their folded upper arms so they won't spread
germs.  It's hoot to walk into a classroom as see kids practicing how to
cough into their arms.  Many lessons that I'm mentioned are strategies
being used mainly on the west coast as an introduction to personal
hygiene as well as proper etiquette.


Hand sanitizing, disinfecting gels, liquids, ointments, etc. are useful
in some occasions but probably not too wise as an effort to prevent
infection and cross contamination.  to require parents to provide the
product to their kids without sufficient rationale for the parents or
the kids might be interpreted as an extraneous attempt to combat the
H1N1 epidemic.  There's already a misplaced fear of H1N1 being spread by
pork products.  Please save the bacon!


Reliance on only these liquids or gel sanitzers may produce some
unintended consequences.  CDC reports 2 million cases of nosocomial
infections in our hospitals resulting in 90,000 deaths of our patients
each year.  Hospitals are frantically investing money into putting
dispensers with hand sanitizers on the floors, in patients' rooms,
waiting rooms, etc.  Some hospitals hire secret monitors to observe
handwashing and record noncompliance; some even pay staff members to
wash their hands correctly out of sheer desperation.  in addition to
carrying the stethoscope and cheat sheets in their pockets, many nurses
and docs are given courtesy of the medical supply companies personal
bottles of hand sanitzers.  Hence, many are skippping the standard sink
and soap routine.  


The results have not been too impressive: infection rate has not gotten
better.  As a matter of fact, healthcare professionals' behavior and
attitude with proper handwashing have worsen.  


We were contracted by a major company in Austin TX to provide a health
education and promotion poster for handwashing--we recommended soap and
water and hygiene.  We thought about inviting those kids to do a demo
for the company's execs and remind them that sometimes simple is best,
like the ABCs.




Matthew C. Mireles, PhD, MPH
President and CEO
Community Medical Foundation for Patient Safety








-----Original Message-----
From: "Gressitt, Stevan" <Stevan.Gressitt at maine.gov>
Sent: Sep 29, 2009 2:39 PM
To: Lyle Milby <Lyle.Milby at NormanOK.gov>, "Suhr, Marcus W."
<MSuhr at ChristianaCare.org>, pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer


Let's see, 62% Ethyl Alcohol= 124 proof? Jack Daniels is what? 


Stevan Gressitt, M.D., Medical Director
Office of Adult Mental Health Services
Department of Health and Human Services
Marquardt Building, 2nd Floor
11 State House Station
32 Blossom Lane
Augusta, ME  04333-0011
Ph: (207)287-4273
Fax: (207)287-1022
Cell Phone: (207) 441-0291
E-Mail : stevan.gressitt at maine.gov
http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/mh/


Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s).  It may contain
confidential and privileged information.  Any unauthorized review, copy,
use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not the
intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this is strictly prohibited.  Please contact me by reply
e-mail or telephone and destroy all copies of this message.






-----Original Message-----
From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Lyle
Milby
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:28 PM
To: Suhr, Marcus W.; pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer


Our school system is putting these out in all of the schools at the
recommendation of the County Health Department in response to H1N1.  Our
Fire Department expressed reservations but they decided to go ahead with
it.  I assume it is an alcohol based product because of the fire
department concern.


Lyle Milby
City of Norman
Environmental Services
P.O. Box 370
Norman, OK  73070
(405) 292-9731
lyle.milby at normanok.gov




-----Original Message-----
From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of Suhr,
Marcus W.
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:20 PM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer


I read an article where a child was poisoned by alcohol sanitizer
recently.  Its only a matter of time before a child dies, or they start
getting the swift idea of lighting it.  My own step-son was required by
the school to bring a bottle to begin the year.  This is a clear example
of bringing an item to market, and not enough controls.  Everyone thinks
sanitizer is so great.  


Anyone else being requested to bring it to school?    


Marcus Suhr, ASP 
Industrial Hygienist 
Christiana Care Health Services 
Occupational Safety Department, Office L840J 
4755 Ogletown-Stanton Road 
Newark, DE 19718 
302-733-3787 (office)
302-573-7662 (pager) 
302-733-3771 (fax) 
MSuhr at christianacare.org




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------------------------------


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:22:54 -0500
From: "Volkman, Jennifer" <Jennifer.Volkman at state.mn.us>
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer
To: <TBadrick at aol.com>, <pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us>
Message-ID:
<6246727221874A4FB8D3F9BBC37D9BD5079D9258 at s-sp22.pca.state.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


My kids haven't been asked to carry concealed yet.  They used to get an
extra credit point for bringing a box of tissues to class, but the
school disallowed that practice this year because they felt it might be
unfair to those who could not afford to supply the school with tissues.
So, the kids are packing their own or using the back of the hand, wall,
desk or whatever is handy.  Management at our state agency (and probably
all of them in MN) issued each desk a 4 oz bottle (apparently this
equals about 8 martinis) and a container of wipes.  I've heard they will
be installing dispensers outside all of our conference rooms, just like
hospitals.  A nurse friend of mine said they had to switch to another
type of sanitizer at her hospital because too many employees (they like
to blame the janitors) were adding a shot to their morning coffee. It
fits right in with all the other craziness...must be something in the
water...










From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of
TBadrick at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:01 PM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: Re: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer






I refer to them as little bombs in the hospital.  In an age where fire
marshals freak out over recycling containers size due to fire
risk....its okay to put aerosol containers (otherwise known as
compressed gas cylinders) of flammable materials every twenty feet or so
along a wall?..  gee I feel safe now.  Whatever happened to soap and
water and proper technique?  is that too complicated?  This is what
happens when rampant uneducated fear trumps science and logic.






I clearly remember the day, sitting in the Reno airport bar and Wolf
Blitzer comes on TV with a special report about deadly MRSA...all I
could think about was how this would put a halt to all other hospital
projects to solve a problem that really wasn't a problem, because guess
what MRSA is already everywhere and that just employing proper hand
washing would do just fine....sigghhhh, I must be getting older ;-)






Tom Badrick


Badrick Consulting










In a message dated 9/29/2009 12:28:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Lyle.Milby at NormanOK.gov writes:


Our school system is putting these out in all of the schools at
the
recommendation of the County Health Department in response to
H1N1.  Our
Fire Department expressed reservations but they decided to go
ahead with
it.  I assume it is an alcohol based product because of the fire
department concern.


Lyle Milby
City of Norman
Environmental Services
P.O. Box 370
Norman, OK  73070
(405) 292-9731
lyle.milby at normanok.gov




-----Original Message-----
From: pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us
[mailto:pharmwaste-bounces at lists.dep.state.fl.us] On Behalf Of
Suhr,
Marcus W.
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:20 PM
To: pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Subject: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer


I read an article where a child was poisoned by alcohol
sanitizer
recently.  Its only a matter of time before a child dies, or
they start
getting the swift idea of lighting it.  My own step-son was
required by
the school to bring a bottle to begin the year.  This is a clear
example
of bringing an item to market, and not enough controls.
Everyone thinks
sanitizer is so great.  


Anyone else being requested to bring it to school?    


Marcus Suhr, ASP 
Industrial Hygienist 
Christiana Care Health Services 
Occupational Safety Department, Office L840J 
4755 Ogletown-Stanton Road 
Newark, DE 19718 
302-733-3787 (office)
302-573-7662 (pager) 
302-733-3771 (fax) 
MSuhr at christianacare.org




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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:52:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew C. Mireles" <mirelesmc at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [Pharmwaste] RE: hand sanitizer
To: "Volkman,Jennifer" <Jennifer.Volkman at state.mn.us>,
TBadrick at aol.com, pharmwaste at lists.dep.state.fl.us
Cc: jerrymiller at communityofcompetence.com, Elizabeth Smith
<smithce at flash.net>, mcmireles at communityofcompetence.com,
linkfilion at yahoo.com, Douglas Dotan <ddotan at crgmedical.com>
Message-ID:
<20595462.1254264751012.JavaMail.root at elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net
>


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End of Pharmwaste Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6
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